Framingham Police, union at odds over Quinn Bill funding

Every tax is a pay cut. Every tax cut is a pay raise.
Citizens for Limited Taxation

Quit fluffing your feathers and trying to convince us that you have more value than we perceive.
Framingham police officers and fire fighters have over-inflated views of their value to our society.
The Town of Framingham did not place any ball and chains on your ankles. If you are not satisfied with your job or pay, please feel free to move on in your lives, but please stop whining like little children.
You are free to improve your lives in any way you choose, including getting what you believe is a better job.
Do not ever forget that you are public servants and work on behalf of the taxpayers.

Framingham Police, union at odds over Quinn Bill funding January 28, 2010

Dan McDonald 508-626-4416 Metrowest Daily News

FRAMINGHAM -- The Framingham Police Officers Union is waging a public relations war against Police Chief Steven Carl and Town Manager Julian Suso over cuts to the Quinn Bill.
The spat reveals a labor dispute focused on whether the town should pay more money to cover the state's half of the education-based police stipends after the state slashed the bill's funding last summer.
The first public blow in the disagreement came when a quarter-page ad proclaiming "Public Safety Alert!," paid for by the union, appeared in Sunday's Daily News.
The ad read: "Framingham Police Officers Union needs your support. The town manager and the police chief are refusing to support education of their police officers."
The town is dismissing the union's barbs as a misguided smear campaign grounded in dissatisfaction that current contract language does not call for the town to make up for state cuts.
Last summer, when Gov. Deval Patrick signed the state's fiscal 2010 budget, it included a drastic cut in state funding for the Quinn Bill, which reimburses police who hold educational degrees.
In Framingham, college educated officers receive 10 percent of their base pay for an associate's degree, 20 percent for a bachelor's degree and 25 percent for a master's degree.
In fiscal 2009, a Framingham officer's base pay ranges from $40,102 for a rookie patrolman on the dayshift to $52,044 for a senior night patrolman. A sergeant's starting pay in Framingham is about $60,000.
A lieutenant's starting salary was about $73,000, while captains were paid upward of $86,000, and deputy chiefs made more than $98,000 in base pay.
Last year, Police Lt. Frank Divittorio made $162,406 - $18,885 of which he was paid in educational incentives.
Now that Quinn Bill figure will likely go down now because of state cuts.
Last year's state cuts to the Quinn Bill left Framingham with a $450,000 deficit it can't cover without substantial cuts to services and other departments.
Suso and selectmen have responded to the union with a three-page press release calling the ad inaccurate and misleading.
Framingham, according to the press release, "is simply without the financial means to pay for the state's legal obligation to fund its historic one-half share of Quinn Bill reimbursements in this fiscal year."
The union's ad encourages readers to contact not the governor or local legislators, but the police chief and the town manager over the reduction in Quinn Bill funding.
"Let's not send Law Enforcement back to the dark ages," the ad reads. "The future of law enforcement is at stake."
In its reply, the town says the union's "concern and frustration, while understandable is completely misdirected toward the town and should instead be focused on the state, which purposely decided not to fully fund the Quinn Bill."
The town, according to the press release, has upheld its end of the bargain by continuing to pay for 50 percent of the Quinn Bill funding out of its local budget.
"Fortuitously, we have contract language that anticipated this...and we're honoring our contract," Suso said yesterday. "It's the state that has failed to meet its legal obligations."
Suso said the town issued the statement to set the record straight.
"Failure to respond to the kind of campaign that has been initiated runs the risk that the public would be misinformed," he said. "We're merely stating the facts."
Through a department spokesman, Carl deferred comment to Suso.
The police union president did not return a call yesterday.

Quit fluffing your feathers and trying to convince us that you have more value than we perceive. Framingham police officers and fire fighters have over-inflated views of their value to our society. The Town of Framingham did not place any ball and chains on your ankles. If you are not satisfied with your job or pay, please feel free to move on in your lives, but please stop whining like little children. You are free to improve your lives in any way you choose, including getting what you believe is a better job. Do not ever forget that you are public servants and work on behalf of the taxpayers.
Framingham Police, union at odds over Quinn Bill funding	January 28, 2010
Dan McDonald 508-626-4416	Metrowest Daily News
FRAMINGHAM -- The Framingham Police Officers Union is waging a public relations war against Police Chief Steven Carl and Town Manager Julian Suso over cuts to the Quinn Bill. The spat reveals a labor dispute focused on whether the town should pay more money to cover the state's half of the education-based police stipends after the state slashed the bill's funding last summer. The first public blow in the disagreement came when a quarter-page ad proclaiming "Public Safety Alert!," paid for by the union, appeared in Sunday's Daily News. The ad read: "Framingham Police Officers Union needs your support. The town manager and the police chief are refusing to support education of their police officers." The town is dismissing the union's barbs as a misguided smear campaign grounded in dissatisfaction that current contract language does not call for the town to make up for state cuts. Last summer, when Gov. Deval Patrick signed the state's fiscal 2010 budget, it included a drastic cut in state funding for the Quinn Bill, which reimburses police who hold educational degrees. In Framingham, college educated officers receive 10 percent of their base pay for an associate's degree, 20 percent for a bachelor's degree and 25 percent for a master's degree. In fiscal 2009, a Framingham officer's base pay ranges from $40,102 for a rookie patrolman on the dayshift to $52,044 for a senior night patrolman. A sergeant's starting pay in Framingham is about $60,000. A lieutenant's starting salary was about $73,000, while captains were paid upward of $86,000, and deputy chiefs made more than $98,000 in base pay. Last year, Police Lt. Frank Divittorio made $162,406 - $18,885 of which he was paid in educational incentives. Now that Quinn Bill figure will likely go down now because of state cuts. Last year's state cuts to the Quinn Bill left Framingham with a $450,000 deficit it can't cover without substantial cuts to services and other departments. Suso and selectmen have responded to the union with a three-page press release calling the ad inaccurate and misleading. Framingham, according to the press release, "is simply without the financial means to pay for the state's legal obligation to fund its historic one-half share of Quinn Bill reimbursements in this fiscal year." The union's ad encourages readers to contact not the governor or local legislators, but the police chief and the town manager over the reduction in Quinn Bill funding. "Let's not send Law Enforcement back to the dark ages," the ad reads. "The future of law enforcement is at stake." In its reply, the town says the union's "concern and frustration, while understandable is completely misdirected toward the town and should instead be focused on the state, which purposely decided not to fully fund the Quinn Bill." The town, according to the press release, has upheld its end of the bargain by continuing to pay for 50 percent of the Quinn Bill funding out of its local budget. "Fortuitously, we have contract language that anticipated this...and we're honoring our contract," Suso said yesterday. "It's the state that has failed to meet its legal obligations." Suso said the town issued the statement to set the record straight. "Failure to respond to the kind of campaign that has been initiated runs the risk that the public would be misinformed," he said. "We're merely stating the facts." Through a department spokesman, Carl deferred comment to Suso. The police union president did not return a call yesterday.

RBP3483 You must be logged in to report abuse. Sorry guys... no money. Be happy you have jobs and shut the hell up. Maybe vote for a Republican governor, too, next time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- fiveO Most did vote for the Republican, this wouldn't have happened with a Republican. Just because we are in a Union and Public Employee's you assume we are Democratic. You are dead wrong on that assumption. If they want to cut 10-20 % across the board on all public employees I am fine with that, but they are not doing that, they (DEVAL PATRICK AND CRONIES) are going after the police. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Public What other job in either the public or private sector gives you a bonus for having a higher education? Helping you get a job or a promotion for being more qualified because of your education is one thing, but to pay you 10-25% extra over a 20+ year career is ridiculous, especialy for public sector employees who's salaries are paid for by taxpayers. The attitude of...'why should I go back to school if I'm not going to get paid for it' would not get you very far in the private sector, why should it be any different for being a police officer. And don't get me started about police details. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ZP Whatever the feelings are, the current officers were given this as part of a salary - in other words, they were not given other things to compensate for this. So to take it away is horrible - 25% of your salary that you had for years, for nothing you did wrong, is awful. People get all caught up because it is the police, and the boogie man because they represent times they have been called out and punished for speeding, etc, but the truth is they do far more than private sector CEO's sitting in cushy offices getting tons more perks. People bitch that officers talk on cell phones? Big FREAKING deal??? Like those whiners go all day at work without calling home to their kids, etc? Who cares?? It's because it's the 'law' they nit pick. Taking away people's salary like this is horrible - and would not be supported if it was not police. Maybe work out a plan for future officers' but leave the current ones alone!! As far as I am concerned, the police deserve far more respect and support from the public they would put their life on the line for ..... and it's disgusting to see otherwise. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Smitty22 I bet suso is enjoying his raise, no raise for FPD though, and a 10-25% pay cut for some officers. Doesn't seem fair to me. Wow 40k for a patrolman....don't spend it all in one place... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- wonfootdown they view bullets and cuts are different inside four walls than a dark alley hoping your partner had the right training covering your back life and family in or out of uniform and shift. good attitude is as important than all the tools on there service belt. as in communications the radios are top of the choice as in their flashlight and service arm. The town requires that but your attitude isn't their fault. Let's put a price on a corpse. After all 'life' on the street is more of a challenge these days with the lack of respect of life this century since the wild west. they off a score if they want but shoot to kill when it's the law. Both the chief and the town manager have locks on the office doors. as in the patrol officer has a lock to but they call that a 'safety' on the trigger. Good luck rank and hope the 'boys' make the right decision on your trust. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ChrisB Maybe they should give up detail pay and keep the Quinn Bill instead. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- StuckinMilford Greedy union bastards --------------------------------------------------------------------------- FraminghamResident1 What's wrong with a $40k salary for a patrolman? They knew what the salary was before they accepted the position. If they want to earn more they should get a new career. The Quinn Bill is outdated. It made more sense when it was adopted over 30 years ago. There are many police officers, local and state who only go back to school for the pay increase, not to become better at his/her job. I've taken some of the criminal justice classes that Westfield State offers at Framingham State that many local officers attend. Most of these officers don't even show up for the classes, breezing by with the help of professors who 'mailed it in' long ago. I took classes at FHS that were more challenging and thought provoking than the ones in this masters program and these guys graduate and get a 25% salary increase for skipping classes and submitting the TAKE HOME FINAL EXAM. It's a complete joke and a slap in the face to the taxpayers who have to fund the salary increase. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- crazylegs Hey the state police still have it. But keep voting in the same hacks year after year... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- sallyp An advanced degree does not guarantee a raise int the private sector, so why should you be any different? Go out and earn your raise. Special details don't count. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent I often wondered how Steve Carl was able to handle the cut in pay when he became the chief. These cops with their details are some of the highest paid employees in the state. Bring in the flagmen as soon as possible. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- matt01702 They should have to take steroid tests to be eligible, at least one would be outta luck. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dameltz I don't remember getting 20% pay when a graduated a couple years ago. Neither did my friends. The Quinn Bill is a ridiculous waste of money. No other job guarantees a pay bump like that for getting a degree. Does the degree have to be relevant? or do we have a bunch of cops running around with liberal arts degrees? Between the Quinn Bill and details the cops seem to have a pretty good deal. Maybe I should consider a new line of work. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent Most of the time these advanced degrees are for the sole purpose of getting higher pay and not to improve the quality of police work. The cops are working the system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- fiveO An advanced degree doesn't guarantee a raise in the private sector perhaps, but it did for those of us who got the degree in our profession. To cut the floor from under us is crazy. $225 per week cut in pay is a big hit when you are only making what we make (base pay). Not every cop works details or wants to work them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BLUE I dont know a single person who was handed a degree! Everyone attended class same as the rest of the student body. To state that degrees are just handed out is absolutely FALSE. Regardless of what profession youre in no one wants a 10-25% cut in pay. But since its the cops and people naturally dislike cops it perfectly fine. I think not.... Think about it from all angles before making an ignorant comment --------------------------------------------------------------------------- friendofblue Having an educated professional police force is paramount to a civilized society. The call to policing is borne out of a wish to pursue justice for victims of crimes, to 'get the bad guy'. It is not a well paid job and is inherently dangerous, just ask Sgt Hurton about that. Who wants to have to work 70-80 hours a week to make a an income to support their families? The police have to do that which is why they have to work overtime and details. Would you want to stand outside in the freezing cold or blazing sun for 6 hours so you can afford your truck payment or to save for your child's college education? Just think, who you want to come and take your report of a crime, perhaps an assault on someone you love...someone with a modicum of education, who can read and write and understand complex critical thinking because of college education? YES. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DKHogs People don't naturally dislike cops. It is those that have abused their power that have spoiled it for all police. Nature has nothing to do with it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent friendofblue You should also point out that many cops make in excess of $150,000 annually. They can retire by their mid fifties. I don't want them standing out in the cold or blazing sun. I want flagmen doing that. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- fire and bikes Suso says'We have a $450,000 deficit we can't cover.' But he'll take a raise and another weeks vacation!!! Good management. Take it for yourself, screw everybody else. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Smitty22 Why doesn't the town just use the funds that the police department generates to pay for the Quinn bill, I'm sure there would be more than enough to go around. The town profits off of police details, citations, parking tickets, and licensing fee's. None of this money goes to the police department. It goes straight to town hall so Suso can hire an assistant town manager to run things when he's taking his 5 weeks off. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- herbsony There is nothing wrong with a 40k starting salary, however there is nothing wrong with boosting the salary by advancing ones education. Officers fully understand when accepting employment what the salary is, they also understand Quinn bill was available to enhance base salary. Odds are if there were no educational salary offsets many of our local officers would have gone to the FBI, DEA State Police or numerous other higher paying enforcement positions, Quinn leveled the playing field for those interested in serving at the local level, to the benefit of both individual officers and communities who are served by them. This is not a Framingham issue, it is one that impacts the entire Commonwealth. Lets not loose focus of the issue. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BillyT FriendofBlue: You hit the nail right on the head with 'standing outside for 6 hours a day' 'Standing' 'Outside' I am supposed to be shedding tears? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark I wish we could vote Carl out like Marsha Croakley. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- sallyp ZP - looking at it from a more logical standpoint, they are really taking away 25% of their pay which they didn't merit in the first place. And don't tell me they have horrible health benefits, sick days (ever hear of police sickouts), vacqation days and retirement plans. We should all be so lucky. I wish the MWDN would invoke the freedom of information act and do a story on how much a policemen's retirement pay is vis a vis years on the force. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- nicksnemesis Steve got his money already so the hell with everyone else. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- bud Health care for immigrants, in state tuition for illegal immigrants, unfunded special education mandates, language translators, benefits, entitlements, welfare and handouts for people who don't earn them - we can afford all that. But the state can't afford to uphold an agreement to compensate for education. It is not right. Do this at your peril. Vote out all incumbents. Time for responsible representation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- herbsony nicksnemesis: All officers to date have received their money. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- nvanston I am the wife of a police officer. To begin, I want to say that I am truely greatful that my husband has a job. As I read these comments I am a little stuned though. I feel that police work is very misunderstood. Prior to meeting my husband I too, had no idea. Though there are some benifits to his job (as we all have to our jobs), there are also many serious draw backs that the average person doesn't know about. For one, most wives don't have to kiss their husbands goodbye, double check that they are wearing a bullet proof vest, and then take a good look at their face and hope that they return in the same condition in which they are left......or that they return at all. Also, there aren't many people who have to go to work everyday armed with the knowledge that ultimately, they are out numbered, knowing that the general public doesn't care for them, and knowing that they are most likely going to be enter at least one dangerous and unpredictable situation where at any time anything could happen to themselves or their co-workers. Most wives don't have to meet their husbands after a shift and watch them clutch their kids because they went to a call were they saw a dead baby and had to console two understandably devistated and out of control parents. And that is only one example, one of the worst, but only one. I agree, receiving a 10%-20% increase for a masterers degree is a great benefit and incentive for police officers. But the bottom line is that like most of us, police officers work really hard for their money too. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- fax Funny how the union and their supporters on this blog mention that Suso got a 1% ($1,500) raise, as if this somehow prevented them from getting their Quinn bill money ($500k) that the state cut. Give me a break! All town unions were all offered a 1% pay raise last July and another 1% this coming June - exactly the same as what Suso got. If memory serves, the police union rejected their 2% raise (presumably because they want more!) Yet Suso, the head of a $200+ million company, is the bad guy for getting a 1% raise?!? Incredible. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MC4 I am amazed as i sit here and read through the negative comments posted as a result of this story. I find it sad that the people on this blog are some of the same people that the Framingham Police Officers put their lives on the line to protect everyday. I wish you would stop and think before posting your comments. How far do you think 50k a year will get you? Those officers have familes and all the same bills you all have. You complain about them being on their cell phones, how petty can you be, Do you realize that they are on a detail because they HAVE to, not because they want to. I am sure that those same officers would love to be home with their familes, just like you. So do away with the Quinn Bill, but then adjust the officers salaries to reflect what they are worth to the community. Think about it . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BLUE I guess people won't be happy Till cops start leaving and going to other towns and cities that have education incentives --------------------------------------------------------------------------- mhalberstein First, thanks to all the police who have responded. It is a dangerous job, and I think the public does appreciate what you do. The public's anger has nothing to do with that, it's caused by the outsized compensation and job security that police (and other public unions) employ. Here's a samplilng of recent headlines: 'Massachusetts Turnpike's 172 cops paid average $150k/yr, most toll collectors $60k' http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/3961 'Police, teachers among Concord's highest-paid employees' http://www.wickedlocal.com/concord/town_info/government/x1543608416/Police-teachers-among-Concords-highest-paid-employees 'Top Wellesley salaries include the police chief and his brother' http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/wellesley/2009/05/by_lisa_kocian_globe_staff_2.html 'Boston police among highest paid in nation' http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/03/29/boston_police_among_highest_paid_in_nation/ I suspect that the Framingham picture is more of the same. Add to these huge paychecks (I know it includes overtime, but lots of us work *unpaid* overtime just to keep our jobs!), cushy pensions (what's a pension? private sector throws money in a bucket and *prays* that the stock market goes up!), job security, sick leave (if you're sick at my company, you either suck it up and come in or you work from home), and generous vacation policy. We absolutely respect the police, but they shouldn't be the best compensated people in town, when all levels of government have serious fiscal problems, people can't find jobs, real pay (for those who do have jobs) has been declining for ten years, and state and local taxes are being racheted up to pay for ridiculous benefits like the Quinn Bill. *That's* why we're mad! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent nvanston Some of us work in industries that are higher on the most dangerous list than police work. I have been in the construction industry for over 30 years and the older I get the more dangerous the work. Unfortunately unlike police I can not retire early. No it is still off to work. High places. Steep roofs. Dangerous lifting. Does your husband have slow times of the year where he makes little or no money.? It is very frustrating that I am paying for the retirement of 'young' police officers that are more fit to work than I. Does your husband have bad knees, a bad back, a replacement shoulder, arthritic hips and the ugliest damned hands you have ever seen due to his line of work.? i won't even mention the years of sun damage on my skin that could lead to cancer. We all have our crosses. I only bitch when others do. Especially the ones that I am paying and paying too much and paying to retire when I have to continue to bust my hump. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MADCOW nvanston - maybee you and your husband should have investigated what the job was about before he accepted the offer. everything in your post is pretty much common knowledge. if its that bad, tell him to find a safer job. if you are looking for pitty or sympathy, you are in the wrong forum here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ssmole For years Framingham PD was the 'cool place' to be a cop. All these young cops coming in from different departments thought they were it, strutting around like they were going to work in LA or NYC. Carl would parade around like the Pied Piper with his little flock of cronies. Guess those days are gone, welcome to reality. With the management structure at that place I wouldn't work there even if they made me a Deputy Chief, my bad, I almost forgot they already have 3 Deputy Chiefs that do nothing. Such a shame as Framingham used to be a professional department under Larabee. I guess it's true that the fish rots from the head. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent Do cops really leave the house in the morning with a vest on.? I don't usually put my parachute on until I am working above three floors. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- nvanston Hi dent I appreciate your comments. Both my parents are in a similar situation and its a horrible place to be. And its a situation that I wouldnt wish on anyone. Are you saying its a situation that you would wish on a police officer? While Im hopeful my husband wont be a police officer past his 60s I unfortunately can assure you that even when his police days are over, financially we will both need to keep working for many years to come. I say all of this with gratitude that both my husband and I are employed and that for the most part we get satisfaction out of our carriers. But I guess my point is, like your job is hard and taxing on your life and your body, its really no different for police people. Its a difficult job and its by any means not an easy one. I actually laughed out load about the parachute! But actually some police people do leave with their vest on, especially if they have wives that make them. I really dont want to get in an ugly banter so this will be my last entry. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Framinghaminator I support you all, fiveO, and I appreciate the hell out of you guys for risking your lives in the dangerous dump that our town's become. If I were in charge (as Governor) I'd not only abide by the Quinn Bill but I'd also pay Framingham cops extra combat pay for having to battle the non-stop parade of murderous scumbags that SMOC imports into our neighborhoods and our schools. I would pay you so much extra for having to deal with those hardened, career felons that get imported to town only because Fat Jim Cuddy makes a profit whenever he places one there. My family loves you guys, fiveO. We're sorry that you're stuck protecting the dump of Framingham, but it's clear that Chief Carl cares more about keeping the vermin out of Hopkinton than he does about keeping Framingham safe. Good luck to y'all. Really. Be careful, hang in there, and let's hope Deval Patrick takes it up the chute in November. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent nvanston As long as you laugh at my lousy jokes I've got no beef with you. Glad you took the time to read and understand my point of view. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- xx45 Local cops who actually do real police work should be getting all the Quinn Bill money. The lazy sob's over at the state police should be the ones getting their funding 100% cut. I've never seen a group of people do so little actual work for so much money. If only I got paid from the moment I left my house in the morning to drive to work and 2 hours off a day for lunch and exercise. Working 4 hours a day for 60k+ must be really tough. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PO Funny how some of the anti-cop posters were so very much on our side when one of our own was nearly killed. And beleive me, I for one was very humbled by that. But god forbid we fight for better pay. It seems to me that you hate us for wanting to make a living for our families, but you love and support us when we are on a verge of dying. It's OK, we will still protect you just the same. After all, who will do all of the things for you that you either do not want to do or are too afraid to even attempt to do (in some of the cases, raising your kids for you.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- herbsony All officers should be getting their Quinn bill, state and local. Lets maintain our focus; this is a mess that was dropped on local communities by the leadership or lack of it in the state house, they created it they should be the ones to fix it. We voted them into office, pick up the phone and let them know how you think and what you expect from them, after all they keep telling us every time there is an election they are here for us. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- jimmyb With the current state of crime in the area, it doesn't look like we need any more Quinn Bill Rocket Scientists patrolling our streets or running the show (Carl). What we do need, is some good common sense a_s kickers!! There are some really good cops out there, but there are also a lot of idiots that tarnish the image of the badge with their huge holier than thou egos. Do other town employees within the fire, water, sewer, highway, school, or park departments have access to the Quinn Bill increase.I don't think so! And don't even start with the whole 'dealing with life and death situations' issue. That is a mute point. If it were applicable to the issue, the fire department employees would also get Quinn cash. There is not one degree program offered at any college or university that can measure a persons ability to respond in an emergency situation. That determination can only be made by the instructors and staff at a tactical training facility (and they issue certificatesnot degrees). I would rather see the money paid out for completing specific job related training. Something along the lines of what an SRT Officer gets. Search techniques, combat shooting, evasive driving, force multiplying techniques. Obtaining these skills would increase the confidence and survivability of our officers, and far outweighs any degree from the University of Phoenix. Yeah they have a tough job (and sometimes very boring), but the fact remains that they have choices just like the rest of us. Big difference is that they have vests, .40's, 12ga. 5.56's, and back-up at their finger tips. What do the rest of us have to protect ourselves from the criminals that laugh at the Police and try to prey on us??? Bottom line..Carl is the worst chief to ever occupy the seat. His back room blow sessions at the Memorial Building have made the town a magnet for undesirables and illegals. Just one trip through downtown tells you that we have a Chief that clearly doesn't care what happens here. It's not his town (Hopkinton), or the town of his deputy blow-boys, so they have no skin in the game. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Framinghamnorth75 A toll collector on the Mass Pike makes more than a first year Police Officer. Pay the Patrolmen a fair wage so they don't have to grab every detail to support their families. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent PO No anti-cops here. Just people who work hard for their money and don't appreciate cops continually wanting more of their money. You guys make a ton of money. You have great benefits and an outstanding retirement program. You are very greedy though. I work harder than any cop. My work is more dangerous. My benefits are less. I will have to work until I die. So quit bitchin and leave some of my money for me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- massreformer Many government jobs carry with them the unfortunate veracity of being underpaid. Teachers, Social Workers, Fireman and yes, Policeman, provide a crucial public service; developing, sustaining, and protecting the very liberties by which this country was founded. People have argued for years that teachers should make more money; some argue educators are equally as valuable as doctors. Obama is pushing his own agenda to rectify this flaw in the system. It is extremely hard to place the value of a persons life, thus it increasingly difficult to accurately place a value on these professions. They will never be paid their worth. I want to feel confident that I have the best teachers educating my children, and the best police force protecting my rights and community. Do they have flaws? Sure. Do you? I know many cops who work a midnight to eight shift, followed by a detail during the day. Forget the standing in the cold or hot sun, every job has its hardships. But these officers work these twelve or sixteen hour shifts so they can come home and spend time with their family, albeit they are exhausted by that time. Many will take a son to a soccer game that afternoon, and later that evening attend their daughters recital, only to sleep the rest of the night until their midnight shifts begins, starting the whole cycle over. If a cop is going to make a phone call to his wife while supervising a detail, I have no problem with that. I respect and understand the public out lash, biased or not. These men work extremely hard in a job that puts their lives on the line every day for YOU. The reality is every wife/husband kisses their FPD spouse when they go to work, not knowing if this might be the last time. The citizens should take comfort in knowing they are protected by the hardest working, most talented, and educated police force possible. For those of you who urge them to go to elsewhere, I hope for your sake that you never need their replacements service and it turns out to be sub par. Please, PLEASE stop referring to the point that these public servants knew what they were getting into, and if they want more compensation they should pursue other careers. Most cops I know have a genuine desire to serve and protect, honoring the oath they took their first day on the force. Yes, they understood the compensation at the time they took their oath. The Quinn bill was designed to improve the effectiveness of police officers. It is NOT just free money. Most people have no idea the day to day challenges a policeman faces. How many times have you walked into a run down house with a baby on the verge of death while his parents are engaged in a domestic dispute? The continuing education is priceless for the added skill sets they acquire to deal with the unimaginable scenarios dealt with on day-to-day bases, and these skills carry throughout their entire career. This country is facing one of the most difficult financial times in history. Everyone is making sacrifices. When the Quinn Bill was introduced in 1970, many officers saw the opportunity to better their job performance while improving their overall effectiveness. To suddenly take this away now? Is having a more educated cop not important? The unions have made several sacrifices over the years to compensate for this benefit, including limiting raises, overtime benefits, and cutting higher-end positions. To lose the Quinn Bill now would be devastating to their financial well being, but also will negate all the negotiations they have left on the table for the past 35 years. In a world of corporate and private sector greed, where CEOs of banks who created this mess are now taking home $10M bonuses, are we really going to focus on the police, many who make a base salary of $40k per year, which is less than 1% of that CEOs bonus? Fact of the matter is, a policeman is far more valuable to society than his paycheck will ever suggest. To further that point, a policeman more educated in the fields of criminal justice is even more valuable, and his salary should reflect it. If you want to discontinue the opportunity for a policeman to increase his job performance, then pursue that route by no longer making the option attainable for those who have yet to fulfill the requirements (which is still a terrible decision). But do not punish those who worked hard for those degrees, and are now better at what they do as a result. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- xx45 'are we really going to focus on the police, many who make a base salary of $40k per year' every single state trooper starts at 60k a year. you might be on for local cops but don't bunch the two together. One does actual work the other does close to nothing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Public Police officers are the only workers who need to work 40,50, 60 hours a week to support their families? Come home to their families too exhausted to be able to spend any quality time with their children? Give me a break! To get paid over $35 hr. (minimun 4 hrs.) to stand at a job site when most states pay someone a third of that to do the same job. And to top it all off to be arrogant enough to enforce the 'Do as I say, not as I do' by having the 'Thin Blue Line' vanity front license plates on their privately owned vehicles, that is ILLEGAL. I asked a police officer about that once, his reply was 'who's going to pull me over?...lol' I think convenient store clerks and cab drivers have a much more dangerous job and assaulted on a much more frequent basis. How much do you think they make an hour? Get your education before you start a career like most workers, no all, but the majority of people go to college, to get a degree in a field they are interested in before they start working. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PO Right, Dent. You never make anti-cop statements. Must my imagination. Don't tell me about how good my benefits are. I have to buy extra insurance for one of my kids because my BCBS just doesn't make it. Sure you work hard as a contractor and your work is dangerous in many ways. The thing is, you get hurt, it's because you are careless most times. I get hurt, mainly because it was someone elses doing. Don't tell me we are greedy. Not like we know what you make because the papers don't write about it. I will not take your word for it either. Last year I had a contractor build on a special acsess to our home. This was an honest guy that charged me reasonably. But before we found him, I got two separate estimates. one was double, and the other almost triple what we eventualy paid. I don't feel to badly for you contractors either, but I met a few that are good solid folks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- xx45 Honestly PO the reason most people dislike cops is due to equality. Most people see it like this, you enforce the law while your working and break it while your not because well, who's going to give a cop a ticket or arrest them unless its a serious offense, and as we can see from the highway beating not even then will something happen. If cops acted like an upstanding members of society and obeyed the laws most people wouldn't mind but a large portion don't. Why can cops drive drunk and not get in trouble but the average person does, your both breaking the law but the big blue shield gets a cop off every time and the average joe gets hammered for it. Maybe if cops wanted people to actually respect them they would act like proper citizens instead of pretending while they wear a uniform, even then its iffy because we all know how much cops abuse their power. But its ok your a cop, nobody's going to do anything to you. As for cop greed just look at the staties, come alive at 5 for your detail pay and do nothing the rest of the day, what a wonderful world to work in! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- stpeter I think if you asked just about anty cop with 15-20 years on, if he would do it all over again , they would think long and hard......probably would say 'should have been a firefighter- people love firefighters'...what the hell , give the cops a cut in pay.....see what kind of people they get over the next ten years for 40K. a year ...My guess..... the citizens of Framingham won't be happy.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- tokidagfari this cash grab has to end. would you be willing to do the same for all public servants? if it's so successful and important would you advocate making it a requirement in the private sector as well? the answer is no. cops should be compensated fairly, no given money there is a difference. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent PO Your insurance is better than mine. You retire younger than i am now. The average cop with anywhere neat my time in makes more money. Your work isn't as hard nor as dangerous as mine. If you consider those facts anti-cop then so be it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Char FraminghamResident1, as someone who actually graduated from the Westfield/Framingham program, not just took a class or two, I can tell you that it certainly required a lot of work and effort, and that while there were police from several towns and agencies in my classes, I never met a Framingham officer that was a slouch. If anything, I learned a lot from them too. You should check your facts too: while some criminal justice programs were audited and identified as not being rigourous enough and 'Quinn Bill Factories', only three programs made the cut and were never discredited (Westfield State's regular program, Westfield at Framingham, and Northeastern). I never did wind up a police officer but I am constantly grateful for the Framingham Police Department officers. They are truly some of the most professional and sincere officers I have come across in my professional pursuits. They are worth every penny to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PO xx45, Yo want to accuse me of things that I do not do, fine with me. I have my integrity and don't feel th need to prove anything to you. You are talking out of your rear end any way. You take a broad brush and paint us all the same color. Yes we have a few bad apples. Every one does. Don't look at yourself in the mirror of the of your car as you drive drunk and justify it by saying 'Cops do it and get away with it.' Just because it is so in your head, it doesn't make it so in true life. And Dent, I will be plugging away till I am am 65. N ot by choice buddy, but because that't how old I will be, when I will reach the point where my retirement will actually have some significanse. Yeah, I got the job a little late in life. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- xx45 See PO that's exactly my point, while you may be the best officer there is, the 'bad' cops give you and good ones like you a terrible image. I don't drive drunk and despise people that do it, but it's just an example of one thing cops get away with. It's so easy for the public to distrust the police because y'all don't do a good job of policing each-others behavior. It's sad really that a few bad apples tarnish your image and the image of other fine officers. The great blue wall doesn't do much to instill trust in the public when someone does something so out of line and another officer doesn't have the balls to say something. Cops seem to hold the public to such a high standard but never take time to look at themselves. If I insulted you I guess it was bad word choice, which I'll apologize for, that was not my intent. I've seen too many things that crooked or bad cops do and nothing gets done, good officers stand by while the bad ones do their thing. Just look at the lying cops in Boston, do you really need a policy that says if you lie your fired? Things like this just don't do much to grow trust with the public. I'll say this though, local cops, especially in an area like Framingham deserve 100% of the Quinn Bill money. We should be encouraging smarter folks to become police officers. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- dent PO You got a retirement.? Isn't that nice, I have to work until I die. The taxes that I pay for you to retire should be set aside for my own retirement. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PO Dent, quit paying taxes if you are not happy with the service. Also, you should look in to to see how much of your tax dollar actually covers your publiic safety services and how much goes to everything else. Stop paying taxes if you aren't happy, sock them away instead.

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